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Re: Cisco ACI

Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:31 pm

Vito_Corleone wrote:I don't think ACI is going to take over the world and I'm happy to stick with FP for now.
I think you'll see ACI take over in BIG data centers, companies that are in the DOW/S&P, but for the vast majority of smaller shops - it'll be a FP/vPC.
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Re: Cisco ACI

Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:33 pm

javentre wrote:
Vito_Corleone wrote:I don't think ACI is going to take over the world and I'm happy to stick with FP for now.
I think you'll see ACI take over in BIG data centers, companies that are in the DOW/S&P, but for everyone else - it'll be a FP/vPC.


Yeah, that's kind of what I'm assuming as well. I really need to see all this shit in action before I'd feel like I could make any accurate prediction.
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Re: Cisco ACI

Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:39 pm

Vito_Corleone wrote:
Steven King wrote:Fair enough Vito. There are some retorts that I would make, but honestly this thread has gone way too far into a negative direction that I really didn't intend it to that frankly I'm in a "insert foot A into mouth B" mode. The intent around the thread was to discuss ACI, and yes, because I'm researching the competition. I shouldn't have let my personal opinions and feelings even come into it - lesson learned. I apologize to everyone for dragging it down into borderline troll status.


That sucks. I feel like I've learned (and realized) a lot due to this thread.


Hehe sorry Vito - no one to blame but myself. I'd rather take the safe route and not feel the urge to shoot off at the mouth (Or through the fingers, I guess I should say) and say anything else that puts me in a negative light.

Don't get me wrong man, I'm not bashing Cisco product overall - as hard as it is to believe - I was more bashing the marketing of it, and only within what they're offering in the DC space. They of course have solid products, no arguments there. If they didn't - they wouldn't be who they are today. I'm very much keeping my focus within the DC, as that is the focus of Arista (for now - who knows what will happen in the future).

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Re: Cisco ACI

Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:42 pm

Vito_Corleone wrote:I really need to see all this shit in action before I'd feel like I could make any accurate prediction.
I might be able to help with that, hit me up after Cisco Live.
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Re: Cisco ACI

Thu May 01, 2014 5:46 pm

Vito_Corleone wrote:I didn't want to make my above post too long, but I have some other random thoughts. This thread was in the back of my head a lot today (I was driving for over seven hours) and some things occurred to me. People like to bitch about Cisco a lot, and, as I said earlier in the thread, I can definitely be one of them. There are things Cisco isn't good at (again, ACE, WAAS, NGFW features, etc). But there are many, many things Cisco is very good at, and a lot of the time, they're the first to market with things as well. People like to talk about the evils of proprietary features and vendor lock-in, but I think most of that is bullshit.

Cisco's proprietary features usually add value that the open standard equivalent is lacking. EIGRP for instance. OSPF has only recently caught up with some of the things EIGRP has been doing forever. Back when IGRP first came out, it had tons of things RIP didn't - that's why they built it. Another important thing with EIGRP is that they don't ALWAYS recommend it. Most of the Cisco recommendations I see for DC are toward OSPF. So it's not as if Cisco is completely focused on locking customers in. They also opened most of it up last year (which, IMO, was mostly pointless).

My next (and last, I promise) example is more recent - FabricPath. AFAIK, Cisco was the first to ship any TRILL/L2MP (including SPB, I believe) technology. FP isn't open, and it's not TRILL-compatible, but it's better. There are features in FP that don't exist in TRILL (yet). That's a huge value for customers, IMO.

So I'm done with that tangent. I just wanted to point out that Cisco really does offer solid products and they're definitely ahead of the game a good percentage of the time.


Sorry to re-hash this, but this is not only a response to you and also to burnyd's question regarding if Arista has a TRILL product.

I'm watching BRKDCT-3640 and I think one of Cisco's Principal Engineers put it best (at around 1:20) that Cisco will support FP for years, but the industry has transitioned from using a L2 overlay (FP) to L3 overlay (VXLAN). The 9k/ACI solution was designed for that transition. He asked the audience if they knew anyone who was shipping TRILL, and that it's a great idea but it didn't really take off. What really took off was IP-based fabrics. That's where the industry is going.

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Re: Cisco ACI

Thu May 01, 2014 5:51 pm

Speaking to one of the principal engineers about this a few months ago with some of my other coworkers we were told the hardware would not support any sort of FP or trill encapsulation that it was not on the road map.

All VXLAN overlays are going to be the be all end all I dont think there is any argument there.
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Re: Cisco ACI

Thu May 01, 2014 5:56 pm

burnyd wrote:Speaking to one of the principal engineers about this a few months ago with some of my other coworkers we were told the hardware would not support any sort of FP or trill encapsulation that it was not on the road map.

All VXLAN overlays are going to be the be all end all I dont think there is any argument there.


Correct - according to Cisco, limitations in the Broadcom chipset prevent FP support, and it doesn't matter anyway because that's not where the industry is going.

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Re: Cisco ACI

Thu May 01, 2014 5:58 pm

Damn.. sounds like OTV is going give way to VXLAN as well.

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Re: Cisco ACI

Thu May 01, 2014 6:12 pm

Steven King wrote:Damn.. sounds like OTV is going give way to VXLAN as well.


what?
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Re: Cisco ACI

Thu May 01, 2014 6:22 pm

burnyd wrote:
Steven King wrote:Damn.. sounds like OTV is going give way to VXLAN as well.


what?


On the same presentation the engineer says that a future version of VXLAN will replace OTV - if I remember what he said correctly. I don't think it was the other way around.

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Re: Cisco ACI

Thu May 01, 2014 6:27 pm

Too funny....
Arista eAPI web interface:
eAPI.png
eAPI.png (494.65 KiB) Viewed 1995 times


Cisco NX-API:
NX-API.png
NX-API.png (54.67 KiB) Viewed 1995 times

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Re: Cisco ACI

Thu May 01, 2014 7:25 pm

Steven King wrote:Sorry to re-hash this, but this is not only a response to you and also to burnyd's question regarding if Arista has a TRILL product.

I'm watching BRKDCT-3640 and I think one of Cisco's Principal Engineers put it best (at around 1:20) that Cisco will support FP for years, but the industry has transitioned from using a L2 overlay (FP) to L3 overlay (VXLAN). The 9k/ACI solution was designed for that transition. He asked the audience if they knew anyone who was shipping TRILL, and that it's a great idea but it didn't really take off. What really took off was IP-based fabrics. That's where the industry is going.


IP-based fabrics took off where? I'd say there's a lot more TRILL(FP&VCS)/SPB out there than VXLAN currently. I think Arista ignored TRILL because it didn't fit into their niche customer base. Also, I think TRILL still has plenty of value in the DC (and the campus, honestly).

As for the comparison picture, are you pointing out the similarity between the APIs? If so, why? The goal is a uniform API across vendors, no? Also, and I can't see the Cisco pic very well, but if they're both JSON, they're obviously going to look similar. Not sure what you're expecting there. Seems like another petty thing to (incorrectly, this case) nitpick, honestly.
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Re: Cisco ACI

Thu May 01, 2014 10:26 pm

Vito - it's not about just leveraging the APIs (That's the point of having APIs), it's that the web interfaces (I'm assuming that's the NX-API web interface) look almost the exact same - even format, just in different colors.

Now you -are- coming off as a Cisco evangelist. I just put simple facts up in a non-bashing manner and you're completely ignoring that and twisting it into a different direction. It's not just Arista that has already been deploying VXLAN, even Cisco (Or at least that one guy) is saying that's the way the industry is heading and that TRILL/FP was a great idea but it didn't take off like they thought it would, so they're developing the 9k/ACI around what the industry is moving to (VXLAN). That's all I said - and it was just quoting a Cisco employee. I don't understand why you're taking this stance when you asked for examples in an earlier post.

I can't speak to Arista's plans to be involved or not be involved in TRILL and the reasoning behind it, but apparently they made a wise decision and Cisco is following suit.

EDIT - But we can agree to disagree and we'll just see which comes out on top in time.

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Re: Cisco ACI

Fri May 02, 2014 7:23 am

Steven King wrote:I just put simple facts up in a non-bashing manner and you're completely ignoring that and twisting it into a different direction.


Seriously? "Too funny"? You're like the kid in the back of the class talking shit under his breath.

I'm not being an evangelist, I'm being annoyed. I put a ton of thought into my posts and, instead of addressing my points, you say you're done, which was a tad annoying, but fine. Now you're back with more petty shit to complain about while ignoring my other points/questions to you. A barebones API website looks similar? On no! And what format would you have gone for? It's a nav bar and forms...

As for TRILL/L2MP tech, how many of your customers have deployed VXLAN? I know of none at all within my company, and it's been a significant amount of time since Arista announced support. I have, and know of, tons of FP users. I have customers looking at FP today, with no desire to use VXLAN in the foreseeable future. We can all (including random people at Cisco) try to predict what the main technology will be, but no one knows. Arista just ignored something that everyone else was at least talking about. And Arista's competing technology has gotten very little traction until recently... when VMWare and Cisco started talking about it.

Long story (not really) short, I'm not an evangelist, I'm just annoyed with your bullshit. if you want to discuss why you think Arista is great and Cisco sucks, that's fine. But don't say you're done and that you don't want to go into it anymore, then come back just to ignore all the previous points and post more nitpicky bullshit (I'm even ignoring the OTV shot).
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Re: Cisco ACI

Fri May 02, 2014 8:35 am

:doh:
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Re: Cisco ACI

Fri May 02, 2014 8:43 am

Steven King wrote:Vito - it's not about just leveraging the APIs (That's the point of having APIs), it's that the web interfaces (I'm assuming that's the NX-API web interface) look almost the exact same - even format, just in different colors.

Now you -are- coming off as a Cisco evangelist. I just put simple facts up in a non-bashing manner and you're completely ignoring that and twisting it into a different direction. It's not just Arista that has already been deploying VXLAN, even Cisco (Or at least that one guy) is saying that's the way the industry is heading and that TRILL/FP was a great idea but it didn't take off like they thought it would, so they're developing the 9k/ACI around what the industry is moving to (VXLAN). That's all I said - and it was just quoting a Cisco employee. I don't understand why you're taking this stance when you asked for examples in an earlier post.

I can't speak to Arista's plans to be involved or not be involved in TRILL and the reasoning behind it, but apparently they made a wise decision and Cisco is following suit.

EDIT - But we can agree to disagree and we'll just see which comes out on top in time.


Not to troll more than I have here but you were asking some really obvious STP questions a few months ago and now you are the end all be all for SDN? You are a bit over your head in vendor pride bull shit.

I have FP in all my major data centers now and its great. I have no complaints. There are several large enterpries within my area also running FP in their large data centers. For some new things I am looking at VXLAN in the distant future but god knows how long that will be.
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Re: Cisco ACI

Fri May 02, 2014 9:06 am

It's not my intent to further pile on, it's just an observation and a bit of advise I've learned over the years.

When you work for a vendor, post under your real name, and make your affiliation with that vendor known - you're effectively representing them. Talk about what your company does well and don't speak negatively of your competition.

If you come in to my organization, and from the looks of your linkedin profile, I am one of your potential customers, there is no bigger turn off than when you bash your competition. It makes you seem insecure about your own products.

Sell me on the merits of your product, not the flaws of your competition.
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Re: Cisco ACI

Fri May 02, 2014 9:27 am

Wow.

I called out marketing lies. I pointed out specific instances where Arista has been doing things that are coming down the road with the 9k/ACI solution (Which was asked for).

I repeated what even Cisco employees stated regarding VXLAN and FP.

I'm obviously in a forum where I'm not welcome if I go against Cisco. Noted. I'm out.

EDIT - P.S. I don't ever remember calling any other guys gear including Cisco's "bad", I pointed out future vision and differences. I don't see how that's bashing - sorry if you took it that way.

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Re: Cisco ACI

Fri May 02, 2014 9:35 am

So that's your take on all of this? Yet again, instead of addressing others' points, you deflect, point fingers, and plan to walk away? Should we expect another nitpick in a couple days?
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Re: Cisco ACI

Fri May 02, 2014 9:44 am

Would a moderator please be so kind as to remove my account or provide me with instructions on how to do so myself?

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